Curse

art_ · Apr 06, 2006, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

ether prodigy adds more energy, lasts for a shorter time, causes exhaustion, and takes away HP afterwards.
ether prodigy can also be used to fuel eles spamming heal-party.
so while this is significantly better than ether prodigy due to EPs massive downsides, it can only be used on elementalist skills...and the lack of exhaustion is a ig plus if you;re using some with energy costs of 15-25.

I would still use EP over your skill in pvp. Exhaustion isn't an issue if thats your only exh causing skill, and you gain plenty more energy from prodigy. The health loss is a non-issue in 8v8.

NatalieD · Apr 06, 2006, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

Elite Enchantment spell: energy storage 10 energy 1/2 seccond cast time, 45 seccond cooldown.
for 30-45 secconds target gains +1-2 (maybee +2 is too much?) energy regeneration. This skill ends if any non-elementalist-skills are used.

thats the prposed skill i have in mind.

Why would anyone ever want to use this over Elemental Attunement?

Seriously, enchantments that improve energy management for ele class skills only are already here. They just need some adjusting to be practical.

Evilsod · Apr 06, 2006, 11:17 PM // 23:17

What would you all say to the ele having the Virtuoso style armour i posted earlier. Armour vs 1 type of ele damage is next to useless as i really haven't noticed the slightest difference between that and my monk and necs tats/scars, armour while casting might actually be useful.

I'm waiting for the new Earth elite 'Mind Stone' "If you have more energy than target foe that foe is bored to death by the repetitiveness of elemenalist elites and is knockeddown for 1-10seconds, if you don't have more energy than target foe then this elite was just a waste of 10 energy and exhaustion"

Winterclaw · Apr 07, 2006, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Interesting thread.

Armor:
This needs a big change. As was pointed out, rangers naturally get +10 armor in general and +30 vs all elements. That means El's get 75AL vs one element and rangers get 100AL vs all elements. To me, you should at least get 100AL versus one elemental type, maybe 120.

Elemental specialization:
I was going to post this in a group of skill ideas a few weeks back but EL's need some spells along the Me's inspiration line. For example + energy when you are hit with a spell of that variety or a spell that acts like reversal of forturn but for elemental damage.

Elemental DPS:
It is kind of sad that the nukers can't put out much damage, but they do have AoE for whatever that is worth. My best solution is to use conjure element and save your spells for when you need to finish someone off.

AoE spells:
I don't think reducing rechage time is the only answer. I think making them cast a little quicker or require less energy is. As I figure it, you've got about 2-3 seconds before someone is out of that firestorm unless he can tank his way through it... that means you've done about as much damage as a fireball... thus in terms of energy, casting time, and recharge, firestorm should be more like fireball. Then you've got air which has few AoE options and you've got ice which only seems to have AoE hexes for the most part.

Hydromacer spells:
It would be nice if at least half of them caused cripple instead of being hexes. And as far as hexes go, they aren't that great. Slowing your opponent's speed for 2-4 seconds is hardly a big deal. For example shard storm could do it's normal damage and then cripple someone for 10 seconds... that'd put it in line with enervating charge. As of now, the only 3 non-hexes I can think of are maelstrom, ice spear, and ice trident.

Energy Storage:
How about some spells that deal raw energy damage? Doesn't have to be a lot, just a few.

NatalieD · Apr 07, 2006, 12:08 AM // 00:08

The only change elementalist armor needs is to get bonuses akin to the other caster armors, not related to specific elements. As it happens, the Factions armors do this beautifully. Archmage and Battlemage ftw.

Kwisatz_Haderach · Apr 07, 2006, 12:09 AM // 00:09

long ago i deleted my fire ele because of many of the facts stated.

1. Eles sux currently.

2. The only real useful purpose of an ele (aoe damage) got the nerf hammer and is useless against anyone with brains in pvp.

3. Lack of spammable defense skills(other than wards) that migitate warrior/ranger damage.

4. Poor Damage per minute.

Things that we should change to make them more useful:

1. A +1 energy regen skill NON-ELITE skill would be very useful. Link it to energy storage to avoid other classes getting any significant use out of it and its rdy to go. Note: there has to be a short time between when affect ends and skill recharges to keep it balanced.

2. Up the damage on spammable skills like flare, stone daggers, and ice spear to at least allow ele damage per minute to equal warrior/ranger damage per minute.

3. Increase Area of Effect for aoe's to allow for longer amount of time in them. Decrease recharge time a bit but not to spammable conditions. That would them make eles cheap beyond belief as they could shut off whole areas of the map to enemies.

4. Decrease Recharge times on defensive skills like Swirling aura, Magnetic Aura, and Armor of Mist to allow for constant upkeep.

Things that should not be done:

1. Allow for 1 ele to be able to spike 600+ damage on a single target. This would break the game as a groups of 8 eles would slug it out and whoever had the quicker trigger would win.

2. Change Ice Hexes to a condition for 2 reasons: 1 it throws out the soul barbs combo which makes ice eles very decent, 2 condition removal is to commonm you would be effectivly shutting off ice slowdown, 3 some skills have different slowdon %'s.

3. Add Armor Penetration acroos the board. This should be an air magic specialty, if you want it switch to air magic. This would also significantly unbalance the game as it would allow for above named single man 600 damage spikes from different ele skill comboes.

I think that sums it up in the end it will come down to what the devs decide to, but something must be done as eles have been on the wrong side of the nerf hammer for way to long. Thinks need to be changed if this class can compete against the new classes and the other older classes.

BahamutKaiser · Apr 07, 2006, 12:27 AM // 00:27

For different water magic hexs being unavailable as a condition, the vast majority of water magic hexes are 66% speed reduction, the others could either be scaled up in duration, or they could remain the way they are as a hex which slows even more for X amount of time. This realy only includes 1 or 2 water magic spells, it is isn't a significant faction in the alteration.

Evilsod · Apr 07, 2006, 12:37 AM // 00:37

It does seem the longer this game has been going the more useless ele's are becoming. Random nerfs are making there skills less and less useful.

Tbh i think elementalist should have extra regen. The exhaustion they suffer from actually using there decent skills is bad enough, never mind having to wait until they regen inbetween fights in PvE.

NatalieD · Apr 07, 2006, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Elementalists don't need more energy. They need spells that are worth spending energy on. If you give them more energy, they'll just cast Heal Party more often.

Ira Blinks · Apr 07, 2006, 03:46 AM // 03:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

ether prodigy adds more energy, lasts for a shorter time, causes exhaustion, and takes away HP afterwards.
ether prodigy can also be used to fuel eles spamming heal-party.
so while this is significantly better than ether prodigy due to EPs massive downsides, it can only be used on elementalist skills...and the lack of exhaustion is a ig plus if you;re using some with energy costs of 15-25.

while you right about details, I still dont see how is this spell different from what we have... nor I care. As it been cleverly pointed out eles dont need more energy - they need spells to use it on.

Ira Blinks · Apr 07, 2006, 03:55 AM // 03:55

Elementalist Tara
actually Swirling aura is 50% chance :\ Still they both should be 30 seconds recharge time. This value has proven to be very ballanced on spells like Obsidian flesh where it lasts 21 seconds with earth magic 16 and recharges in 30 seconds. True - you can always buff it up with 20% enchant mod and Serpent quickness, but this would be totaly sacrificing whole skill bar for one spell, which isnt exactly uber.

Ira Blinks · Apr 07, 2006, 04:10 AM // 04:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwisatz_Haderach

Things that should not be done:

1. Allow for 1 ele to be able to spike 600+ damage on a single target. This would break the game as a groups of 8 eles would slug it out and whoever had the quicker trigger would win.

This prevention is already in place - insane casting time

Quote:

2. Change Ice Hexes to a condition for 2 reasons: 1 it throws out the soul barbs combo which makes ice eles very decent, 2 condition removal is to commonm you would be effectivly shutting off ice slowdown, 3 some skills have different slowdon %'s.

I dont see a reason to be so worried. Just like burning "frozen" doesnt last long enough to draw attention of condition removers.
Only Mind Freeze has different slow percentage (90) and it may remain hex for all I care.
And If you like Soul barb you can always switch to Fragility... in fact with condition removals it will be even more effective.

Quote:

3. Add Armor Penetration acroos the board. This should be an air magic specialty, if you want it switch to air magic. This would also significantly unbalance the game as it would allow for above named single man 600 damage spikes from different ele skill comboes.

600 damage is a pure speculation - that will never happen, nor we asking for it.
And since you like to compare damage - do a little experiment. Go to RA and fight up against some noob wammo (should be very easy to find) and then tell me who needs a damage cap.
My first question after that will be: Why the hell skills that cost no energy, recharge in seconds and almost uninterruptable simply ignore armor altogether and the best eles get is 25% +all the downsides described earlier in this thread?

Elementalist Tara · Apr 07, 2006, 04:43 AM // 04:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ira Blinks

Elementalist Tara
actually Swirling aura is 50% chance :\.

AHhh MY fault...I thought (*from my FoW days*) it was till 75%....(was it ever now you got me confuzzled

)

In any case Swirling being 50% if your using any other primary (Fire,Earth or Air) and having that just for Defence "Shields up!" so totally blows it away...same % chance with the same mana cost.....Half the recharge...and "Shields up!" while small has a AoE and you get +50 armor against peircing plus it's a stance/shout *Insta Cast* over Swirlings 1 second.....and for the 2ndary point setup *at least the one I use....11-11-8 then runed to +4 primary and +1 for ES*....So Water Primary aside they have the same lasting time...

Point being....I agree I would ~love~ to see at least alittle boost to some of the under-used Elle skills...Even if it is just to little defensive spells...they need just a bit of help

and BTW I havn't used Annunements sence I started running multi-line elle's....Water-Earth in Fow and that simply becuase annuned to one ellement was to weak to waste a slot...and I can't even tell the diffrance...if I try to run annuments in builds now half the time I don't even notice I don't have it on I am just so used to energy management....Not trying to say "I'm so cool look at me!" but I think Annuments could use some kinda boost....Don't ask me how I'm not good with balance things like that

LightningHell · Apr 07, 2006, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Interesting thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Armor:
This needs a big change. As was pointed out, rangers naturally get +10 armor in general and +30 vs all elements. That means El's get 75AL vs one element and rangers get 100AL vs all elements. To me, you should at least get 100AL versus one elemental type, maybe 120.

We Eles also need better overall Elemental resistance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Elemental specialization:
I was going to post this in a group of skill ideas a few weeks back but EL's need some spells along the Me's inspiration line. For example + energy when you are hit with a spell of that variety or a spell that acts like reversal of forturn but for elemental damage.

I don't get this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Elemental DPS:
It is kind of sad that the nukers can't put out much damage, but they do have AoE for whatever that is worth. My best solution is to use conjure element and save your spells for when you need to finish someone off.

Well, what they put on the box isn't exactly what it is...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

AoE spells:
I don't think reducing rechage time is the only answer. I think making them cast a little quicker or require less energy is. As I figure it, you've got about 2-3 seconds before someone is out of that firestorm unless he can tank his way through it... that means you've done about as much damage as a fireball... thus in terms of energy, casting time, and recharge, firestorm should be more like fireball. Then you've got air which has few AoE options and you've got ice which only seems to have AoE hexes for the most part.

Earth doesn't have enough attacks, too!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Hydromacer spells:
It would be nice if at least half of them caused cripple instead of being hexes. And as far as hexes go, they aren't that great. Slowing your opponent's speed for 2-4 seconds is hardly a big deal. For example shard storm could do it's normal damage and then cripple someone for 10 seconds... that'd put it in line with enervating charge. As of now, the only 3 non-hexes I can think of are maelstrom, ice spear, and ice trident.

Hey there are...Maelstrom, Ice Spear, Armor of Mist, Ice Trident, Mist Form, Ward Against Harm, Swirling Aura, Armor of Mist, Shard Storm (I don't think it's a hex...), Water Attunement (which doesn't really count).

And 10s cripple is a damn lot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Energy Storage:
How about some spells that deal raw energy damage? Doesn't have to be a lot, just a few.

Not bad.

Quote:

it throws out the soul barbs combo which makes ice eles very decent

Wa...what???????

Another complaint I have is the lack of decent Elemental elites.

Rhunex · Apr 07, 2006, 05:11 AM // 05:11

I don't see why people are complaining so much about ele skills...they're not bad. My GOOD ele build, of which I am not telling anyone(it's not a hard one, all fire, lots of damage...figure it out) can easy deal out hundreds of damage per second to an area. And as for meteor shower...anyone who uses that spell is a complete tool. If your enemy is stupid enough to stand inside that for all 3 knockdowns then you shouldn't have a problem killing them anyways(hint: they're a n00b)

I am sad though, that so many people believe elementalists are so useless.

Elementalist Tara · Apr 07, 2006, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhunex

I don't see why people are complaining so much about ele skills...they're not bad. My GOOD ele build, of which I am not telling anyone(it's not a hard one, all fire, lots of damage...figure it out) can easy deal out hundreds of damage per second to an area. And as for meteor shower...anyone who uses that spell is a complete tool. If your enemy is stupid enough to stand inside that for all 3 knockdowns then you shouldn't have a problem killing them anyways(hint: they're a n00b)

I am sad though, that so many people believe elementalists are so useless.

Don't get me wrong I love elle's.....Never had issues with damage...I've been using Water sence the Fire AoE patch...(Check my started posts if you wanta see it's so old LOL) and only lately...Last 2 months or so I've been playing with all the elements....never really felt challanged in terms of power or 2ndary effects...But I was always struggling to come up with a good ~elle styled~ defensive setup...Tho I am liking my Warrior 2ndary lately

It would just be nice to see some of the lesser used skills get a small boost......

Winterclaw · Apr 07, 2006, 05:54 AM // 05:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

I don't get this.

Let's say I'm playing a hyrdomancer. I should have a skill or two from my water magic that might heal me or give me energy whenever I take cold damage.

Quote:

Hey there are...Maelstrom, Ice Spear, Armor of Mist, Ice Trident, Mist Form, Ward Against Harm, Swirling Aura, Armor of Mist, Shard Storm (I don't think it's a hex...), Water Attunement (which doesn't really count).

I think shard storm is a hex.

Quote:

And 10s cripple is a damn lot.

Warriors have a 10 second cripple I think, costs them 10 energy.

Quote:

Another complaint I have is the lack of decent Elemental elites.

They'll probably add those after they add the decent sword elites.

LightningHell · Apr 07, 2006, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Let's say I'm playing a hyrdomancer. I should have a skill or two from my water magic that might heal me or give me energy whenever I take cold damage.

Okay, I get you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

I think shard storm is a hex.

Well, it doesn't say in the descript. Whatever, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Warriors have a 10 second cripple I think, costs them 10 energy.

Hamstring; and it scales 3...13. I usually use Deep Freeze at 2-3 Water Magic...since I don't need the damage anyways.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

They'll probably add those after they add the decent sword elites.

They have; now where are the decent Elly ones?

Rhunix, I would reply, but wait, I have to go now...reply later.

Elementalist Tara · Apr 07, 2006, 06:20 AM // 06:20

Silly Lighting

I think one thing we ALL agree on is adding to the elite skills...

art_ · Apr 07, 2006, 06:26 AM // 06:26

I think you have to accept the elementalist line is gimped, and Anet doesn't really know where they are going with it. I for one am not at all distressed that i deleted my primary pve character - a fire ele.